Release date notes for v2010.1

04 May 2010

You’d think after four years in this job I’d stop with the prognostications and promises about when products will ship. But no, I reload the old release-date shotgun and shoot myself in the foot.

Yesterday afternoon, the R&D teams got together to review the current state of play with regard to the v2010.1 release after a weekend of the Release Candidate 2 (RC2) being used. As the reports were presented around the table it became clear that the teams weren’t happy with the current quality of the release. Although everyone agreed that there weren’t any stop-ship bugs, there was a high level of “medium-level” bugs which were likely to be hit but that had some kind of workaround.

Some discussion later and the decision was made to delay the release for a (hand-waving) couple of weeks to address the majority of these issues.

So, if you are waiting for the final release of DXperience v2010.1 please be patient a little while longer: it’ll be worth it. Of course, if you already have DXperience, you already have access to RC2 from Client Center. We’ll be back in touch once we’re happy with the quality and robustness of the release.

46 comment(s)
Nate Laff

Hopefully there will be interim releases between RC2 and final? Model Editor bugs have absolutley killed us in trying to move forward with beta testing. I think you've made the right call, though, for what it's worth from me :)

4 May, 2010
Boris Bosnjak

The candid posting is appreciated.  I prefer the delay in order to get a top quality release.  A short delay will bother some, but a buggy release will do damage to DevEx's reputation in the longer term.

4 May, 2010
Tim Lajaunie

Are the majority of these "medium-level" bugs affecting WPF or Silverlight components?  Please elaborate so those of us not using those parts of the suite can feel a little better about running against RC2.

4 May, 2010
Carlos

What does this mean for CodeRush/Refactor Pro? Are they also going to be delayed??

4 May, 2010
Michael Proctor [DX-Squad]

Although you know my stance, I just wanted to put my support behind DX as well.

Ultimately there were some large codebase changes in this release, so we don't see how much has gone into the backend, but I do feel by 2011.1 (2010.2 will be polishing and beta'ing new stuff) we will have a myriad of features flowing. So yes we are in the uphill leg of the journey but wow I can't wait for the downhill hill part where everything speeds up as the codebase can support all the new tech and features come flying out the door.

I feel that although this might put DX a little on the back foot in comparison to the competitors at this precise moment, I feel if we wind forward the clock 12 months that DX will just fly past them as DX are making the hard decisions now, the other vendors will either have to keep "patching" what they have or make the same decision sometime in the future.

So kudos to DX for making the hard decisions and we very much appreciate how awkward it must be to post these "updates"

4 May, 2010
Sigurd Decroos

As much as I like this notification, it would be nice to know what these bugs are. I really want to convert all my WinForms apps to Studio 2010. Is this still a problem?

4 May, 2010
Christopher Todd

I for one agree with DX's decision. Although, I haven't had any show stoppers with the RC, I have had quite a few issues which for the most part have been fixed. I know some people are on hold with VS 2010. But seriously, no one should be betting the farm on VS 2010 anyways! It has it's own issues and I'm experiencing them everyday in my testing.

Please release another build soon.

4 May, 2010
Saif Khan

Guys, better safe than sorry! Do what you do best, make your customers happy with the final product.

4 May, 2010
Tyron Harford

Same comments as the other guys - know it must be hard posting these updates, but thanks a million for letting us know. I've been using DevExpress for 3 or 4 years now and have never looked back.

I've downloaded the version before the RC and was surprised with the stability of even that version with all the components I use. We've got one major product using DevExpress and a whole bunch of modules that fit in that app, and some of them use DevExpress as well.

In short - keep up the good work guys! VS 2010 is the biggest upgrade I've seen in years, and putting the hard yards in now is sure to pay off in the future.

4 May, 2010
prh

I hope, in the final version the print function works!

5 May, 2010
Binish Peter

Thanks Julian, we can wait for a good version to avoid writing many workarounds.

I tried converting our application to 10.1 and faced many issues, it is time consuming to understand all those breaking changes to XAF,  and these are voiding many workarounds/extensions which were made. I will submit more bugs coming week, if I don't find a straightforward solution.

5 May, 2010
Mark Harby

Sometimes honesty really does work.

This has to be the right decision for long term reasons. I agree with Michael, there are bound to be vendors out there who will be patching for a long time just so they can ship now with the minimum of resource.

If it's going to be a couple of weeks, any chance of publishing the current 'issues' list so we can work around while testing our own apps against VS2010 and RC2 ?

5 May, 2010
Garry Lowther

Thanks for the notification - I was expecting the RTM this week based upon previous comments, but am happy to wait for a more robust release as it'll save a few of my hairs!

5 May, 2010
CESAR F. QüEB

I'm not agree with this... like Michael Proctor says.. competitors has released the 2010.1 version already.. and what happened with new fixes or patches?... this point is precisely the core of the subject.. two updates in a year?..

i.e: CR and R! only was release one time in the past... if you want the new fixes.. renew your subscription..

The subscription must to include real year dates... if DX release one mayor version on May 2010 when you must to release the version on March (delayed), the customers must to have two additional (extended) moths in the expiration subscription date.

IMHO.

5 May, 2010
Sean Kearon

Good choice - much better to go with quality than speed.  Nice to be updated too.  I choose DevExpress as the quality was higher than the competition.

5 May, 2010
Michael Thuma

OK from my side ...

5 May, 2010
Peter Thorpe

I don't think anyone will have planned to release anything using 2010 in the near future and the RC gives us something to work with. I haven't seen any major bugs yet but would rather have the potential ones solved before I release anything.

@CESAR I see your point about licensing perhaps DevExpress should consider adjusting the subscription to covering 2 releases with the yearly subscription rather than set dates. Not that it would matter to the repeat subscribers.

5 May, 2010
Vojko Voga

@CESAR: I couldn't agree more!

When I first start using DX components there was 4 versions per year. One year after that only 3 versions per year. And now what? 2 versions per year or even worst ........ posible only 1 version/year.

I am very sorry but this is not enough. So we will have to reconsider extending subscription.

5 May, 2010
Michael Proctor [DX-Squad]

@CESAR & @VOJKO

Lets consider this, the average wage of a Software Engineer in the US is $52,000 (www.payscale.com/.../Salary) and say you have the top DXperience Subscription with a renewal price of $799.

The renewal is 1.53% of a software engineer, lets just round that up to 2%.

Now, lets say you have 50 developers and need 50 licenses (to which you renewal would drop in price anyway, but I digress), so now you are effectively paying for a single software engineer wage.

Would that single software engineer be able to support all of your 50 developers, providing details answers and in most cases even example projects to a specific question?

Would that engineer also be able to provide you with a wide spread of components for 4 major technologies? (WinForm, ASP.NET, WPF, SL)

Would he also provide you with developer productivity tools that can easily improve you performance by at least 20%?

Personally for 2% of the cost of a single developer I wouldn't care if DX didn't even release for a year, the amount of money they have saved me over the last 4 years has paid over and over again.

The other aspect of all this is, DX is effectively renovating the foundations of their codebase for WPF/SL as well as XAF, this is not an easy task and they are trying not to cause too much breaking changes (but of course that is inevitable). On top of this they are supporting a new IDE (VS2010 built with WPF) while still supporting the old IDE (VS2005/2008 built with GDI), while also supporting a new CLR (.NET 4) and supporting the old CLR (.NET 2).

Yes other vendors have released, but from what I have seen of the code, alot of the their components are very independant of each other, they don't follow a natural flow from one component to another, they also contain a fair amount of "patch" code and I would hazard a guess to say that eventually they too will be having to strip down their suites and do some major work.

I am not saying you guys don't feel the way you do, I can appreciate your concerns, however I feel if you do take a step back and consider the utlimate price you are paying over what your are getting, I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

Just my 2 cents

5 May, 2010
Leonidas Zoumis

We at CGSoft would also like to extend our support to DevExpress team. If necessary we will stick with 2009.3 version for a few months more. No big problem.

5 May, 2010
Luc

You could release that latest almost ready version as an additional RC. Put all the disclaimers you want.

Then it may be less painfull for those who are not affected by those possible issues and that can't wait the real release.  

5 May, 2010
Mathew Alex

Vojko Voga: Yes I totally agree with you.

Also I remember last year promise that they added more developers that the new year will hot or something like.

This two weeks isn't the big issue but really DX is not in the line in matter of new features rate and release rate.

5 May, 2010
Dave Deragon

All of us love new technology, otherwise we wouldn't be software developers. As such we use tools from vendors like DevExpress to be able to maximize the benefits of technology. Let us not forget that these tools build applications that we deliver to OUR customers.

I, for one do NOT want the software we develop to propagate any issues from DevExpress or anyone else for that matter, to the applications we develop.

Although I would love to get my hands on the "latest and greatest", I appreciate the honesty from DevExpress to make sure their software is as solid as can be expected, so that us developers can focus on our own applications instead of developing workarounds.

Remember, most people forget it took a little longer to deliver a great product, but most people remember poor quality products a long time.

5 May, 2010
FloridaDevs

Regardless of how people might feel about this news the big underlying kudos goes to transparency; something that has been a complaint by many throughout the various threads on here.  Cheers!

5 May, 2010
Neal

My hat's off to DX for making the decision based on quality()  {

As a repeat subscriber, delays don't bother me, but I understand the point of those that live by an annual subscription hoping to get something for their renewal purchase, but there are never promises in the land of software.

However, at the end of this year, I hope you'll evaluate whether this two releases per year really lended to higher quality vice the 3 to 4 per year, as you had previously.  I'm not going to go digging for your blog article on the reduced release schedule and justification, but does the reduced release schedule lend to more time "away from Q/A" that resulted in this situation?  I know VS 2010 is in this mix and a lot can be attributed to that, or can it?

Sometimes more passes across Q/A per year may be a better thing, it sounds like something really got away from the quality department this time around.  I'm not sure why so much broke and changed and if VS 2010 is really the cause?

While I'm at it, I would really like to have a straight-up .NET 4 compilation of all, not carrying legacy .NET 2 DLL's in my app if they're not needed.  I don't mind separate installs ".NET 2 Compiled DXp" and a ".NET 4 Compiled DXp" - we could choose the one that best suits our needs.

};

P.S.  Yes, I'm in C# mode due to iPhone dev (MonoTouch) - Can't wait to get back to VB!!! :)

5 May, 2010
Julian Bucknall (DevExpress)

Tim: Issues are mostly Silverlight/WPF related. Some XAF.

Carlos: Since CodeRush is part of DXperience and we release everything together, it means CR will be delayed. However, the current beta is very stable (CR is not a cause of the delay).

Sigurd: No issues with either WinForms or ASP.NET controls. They're completely stable.

Mark: I'd rather you use support if you encounter anything. It may be you see something we should fix, whereas if you use some contorted workaround you may miss it.

Cheers, Julian

5 May, 2010
Gary L Cox Jr [DX-Squad]

I'm glad you are waiting so that you can put out a stable and robust product.  Your bugs become our bugs and our headaches so the least we can have the better.

5 May, 2010
Gavin Duffy

you're killing us with this bundling of multiple technologies.

if i understand Julian correctly, asp.net for example is ready for release.

that fact that you even have a checkbox in the installer to hide what you are not subscribed to says it all.

5 May, 2010
Alex Danvy

@Michael : Are you mad !? If Ray miserably read your great post with which I can't agree more, he could raise DevExpress components price a lot. :-B

Those components are great value for developers looking for productivity enhancement and powerful tools.

5 May, 2010
Masa Ito

Thanks for the candid update - and particularly for the additional details in the comment response.  I almost didn't make it through the comments - but glad I did. You might consider revising the original post to include the comment.

Good luck getting these issues resolved.  I usually wait until a point 2 or 3 release before installing, so I am obviously in favor of stability over speed.

5 May, 2010
Roger Areia

While it seems everyone is more or more or less ok with this this, as a WinForms developer it seems we are running like mad just to stay where we are (that is we would be happy to be where we were with vs2008 with vs2010 at the end of this year).  In addition to all this, we wait for TBA features that will obviously never arrive.

Not fun.

5 May, 2010
Developer Ar

While our heart is at a chocking attack, but we now the team and "love/respect" them.

5 May, 2010
Ramy Othman

@Michael

I do really agree with you, it's really cool to have the most updates during the subscription period nevertheless the fact that the value we are getting from the components and the excellent support from the team. Should really be considered so I would like to put my voice to  yours and send a cheer of respect for the DevExpress team.

5 May, 2010
Sigol

Absolutely the right move. Quality first please.

6 May, 2010
Russell Mangel

Being late on the "Release version of DX", is not the issue.

Please, please, listen to this constructive criticisim.

DevExpress did not have a Beta or a Release Candidate *before* Visual Studio 2010 released. This is not acceptable.

Being late on a Release is okay, as long as there is Beta/RC releases long before Visual Studio releases.

Russell Mangel

Las Vegas, NV

6 May, 2010
Phil Ballai_1

Dev Express Team: Thank You.

Ignore the nay-sayers and keep up the great work.

I am sure their code is always bug free:)

6 May, 2010
Russell Mangel

Julian,

As you replied to Tim:

Tim: Issues are mostly Silverlight/WPF related. Some XAF.

Can you consider not bundling everything together in the future?

All the Windows Forms and ASP.Net people would benefit.

Russell Mangel

Las Vegas, NV

PS.

Please also see my previous post about Beta/RC Releases.

6 May, 2010
Garry Lowther

Good point Russell about the bundling. Julian said that there are no problems with WinForms and ASP.Net - why can't we get those now? A lot of us are not ready to take the leap to Silverlight yet (since 4.0 has no support for ADO.Net DataSet) or care too much for XAF or WPF.

7 May, 2010
Jamal Assaf

Better quality tools are what we look so a little delay is no problem for us. I would prefer a stable product.

As for the seperating the XAF and WPF, I think this a good idea as we do not use yet. This will also save on your download bandwidth and reduce the size of the installer.

BTW, we need flash object insertion from the toolbar support in the ASP.NET HtmlEditor.

Keep up the good work!

7 May, 2010
Julian Bucknall (DevExpress)

Separate installs for DXperience: I remember talking about this in the past at some point (on this blog? as a newsletter message?) but at the moment it's not surfacing with a Google search for me. In essence we share code across all packages/platforms and splitting the packages would result in copied code, fixes being lost, and the like. We understand the point, but would point out that the RC2 of v2010.1 will work perfectly well for WinForms and ASP.NET (although those teams are tagging along and taking the opportunity to fix a few more issues before release).

Beta before VS2010: I did two posts pointing out that the beta 2 and RC of VS2010 had issues with controls that implemented ISupportInitialize, which means most if not all of ours. Crashes, corrupted forms, etc. Yummy. So, yeah, it would have been great for us to provide a beta to use with the VS beta, but this time around not so much. Maybe the next VS won't fundamentally break controls in the beta, in which case we can revisit the question.

Cheers, Julian

7 May, 2010
Jason Short

"I am very sorry but this is not enough. So we will have to reconsider extending subscription."

Man people are seriously deluded.  NO ONE could have predicted how VS 2010 would impact everyones dev cycles.  When the RC suddenly popped up many developers had to scramble to retest, build, ship a product just for that little surprise.

One update per year is MORE than worth the price of admission.  People just want to complain, complain, complain.  Fine.  Do 10 releases per year with nothing but doc changes and new logos.  Would people like that more?  The subscription is for releases during that period, not a guarantee of a release during that period.  

Same as Volume Licenses with Microsoft and others. You buy on 1/2010 and 2/2010 you have to renew, doesn't matter if anything came out or not.  

You are paying for a way to have FIXED prices per year, you know what your renewal cost is per year and Dev Express can budget and plan for that income.  When people start this whining is when companies drop subscriptions and go back to pay for each dot release, or make one release every 2 years and charge big bucks.

8 May, 2010
Vladimir Kartaviy

Where I can download RC2? I can't find it in my Client Center ;(

9 May, 2010
Joel Mundt

Yeah, you guys have made the proper decision.  I wish our customers always understood the line of reasoning you've taken.

Regards,

Joel

10 May, 2010
Paulo Aboim Pinto

Hello,

thanks for the post. Now we know how can we count with DevExpress. We can count with superior products.

I would like to know if all the products that you are porting to WPF will be ported to Silverlight too?

Regards

Paulo Aboim Pinto

Odivelas - Portugal

14 May, 2010
Mitchell Thraves

Hi guys

The 2 week delay is up today, any news?

19 May, 2010
Mitchell Thraves

Wow! Just spotted that you've released it today...many thanks guys.

19 May, 2010

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