Got Delphi XE Starter? Want to install our controls? Tough.

Would it suffice to deliver project groups for the compilation and *.reg files for the component installation?

(I just checked my DX folder. There weren't any project groups for the packages.)

Best regards,

Uli.

Julian ... It is interesting to see how good the communication works - I think they don't like you anymore:).

In my opinion it is ok to have the starter but on the other hand if someone is so rich that he can afford the devexpress controls he is not dependent on the Starter. In this case maybe provide a binary compiled Grid for starters but Starter should concentrate on Delphi and not on investigation tons of thirdparty components ... it is good to be in the position to install the GExperts, but what you describe is not a burning problem.

@Michael : I don't agree. Dcc32.exe is missing and not only DevExpress is using it for installing their product. Other VCL vendors are doing so, Open source project are doing so too... So why the hell did they remove it ?

Stephane ... this is about devexpress components ... and for devexpress components it is not a burning problem.

And finally it is not EMB's installer. We will not solve this issue at the devexpress blog.

The ready for CI environment is for me to an intresting point to address anyway. Why did they remove it? Because the compiler does not know that he is a Starter compiler - but I agree it is time for EMB to consider build servers and CI +1 for you.

I remember with the Turbo edition that there was a way to download the command line compilers from the CodeGear website for this kind of thing. I remember doing it to use the JCL installer.

I'm surprised that there is no command line support available.

Embarcadero Delphi and C++Builder Starter Editions are for beginners, startups with no revenue yet, developers doing non-profit work for free, people who are starting a new career (perhaps they've been laid off in another industry), etc.

The Starter editions are not for working professionals that work for companies that can afford the Professional or Enterprise editions that come with command line tools, modeling tools, documentation generation and other Professional versions of our developer tools.

Looking at some of the comments above - I like the suggesiton from Michael Thuma that it would be cool to provide some "starter" components that are already compiled into packages ready to install for beginning programmers.

In the meantime, I am continuing to work with R&D to see if there is a solution for our technology partners that require additional tools that are part of our products for their installation/builds.

We are encouraging all of our Delphi XE and C++Builder XE ecosystem partners to take advantage of this new developer opportunity and create lower priced starter component and tool sets to help beginners get started even faster.  Come join the software development fun.  Get started!

This got me thinking (oh no!): how does the installer work when someone purchases a licence without source code?

www.devexpress.com/.../NetOffer

Something like this for hobbyists and starters would make some people happy if they just have decided for the starter and a video with the (new) manager for the VCL product lines you plan ... and a sticky note control ... that's it for the moment;).

Serious - maybe something tiny little will make people happy...

@Jeff: You can still install packages:), they did not exclude the linker.

Oops - I now see that Julian was specifically talking about the VCL Subscription...

Jeff: What I understand it that it not so easy for them to consider the Starter edition, because a hobbyist or retired programmer writing apps with one of the grids is a very lustly one. (I hope lustly is not XXX-rated ... hale is another word).

Michael: my original point was DevEx sells VCL components WITHOUT SOURCE so they a) either ship the source and delete it after compiling and installing or b) ship pre-compiled, ready to install packages.

That said i did re-read Julian's post and it specifically refers to the VCL Subscription. It always includes and is built from source because the size of the the install for all components compiled for all supported Delphi/C++Builder versions would be ridiculously large.

Is there still a point to be made? Yes. DevEx VCL Components purchased individually WITHOUT SOURCE should work with the Starter editions of Delphi/C++Builder XE.

This should be taken as a compliment to DevExpress. Embarcadero marketing people know that many people, who are professional delphi developers will be using require devexpress components. They are looking for an insurance policy to protect revenue.

I tend to agree that Embarcadero really need another solution. Delphi is a good language but it only reaches its true potential once you have installed some third party components like DevExpress so making this hard or impossible is a turn off.

I tried installing to Delphi 2010 trial a year ago so I could see whether there was any problems compiling and running our applications (currently in Delphi 2007) with Unicode. Of course in order to compile our applications I also needed to install DevExpress etc...

BUT the Delphi 2010 trial didn't include dcc32.exe so I was out of luck. I'm not manually compiling a couple of hundred packages so I just gave up, there was literally no real way for me to properly trial Delphi 2010 (in the end a sympathetic Embarcadero employee got the dcc32.ex file for me but it should NOT be this hard!).

Jeff, ok. b) is then the alternative.  I did not know that they sell without source code ... but never needed to investigate.

Jedi also already have. They are quick and there is a will.

andy.jgknet.de/.../jcl-and-jvcl-binary-installer-for-xe-and-starter-edition

I think the Starter Edition is for tinkering ... and I don't have the intention that devexpress products touch this corner ... so my little nice tiny for free was in this context.

If there is a demand from some people why not ...

Isn't that the same as Visual Studio Express?  You can't really extend it with anything 3rd party if I recall (unless that was changed for 2010).  Actually, the fact that you can install precompiled is actually more relaxed than VS Express...

I see it as "you get what you pay for" and that is an acceptable limitation to a free "starter" IDE.  Embarcadero wants you to eventually BUY a copy of it, not use the starter forever!  The fact they increase the freedom over the Turbo editions is already a concession...

Now, as far as the lack of communication with DevExpress prior to lauch, uh, yeah, that is a ball that got dropped it seems...

After I read the announcement of the starter edition I was also very enthusiastic because my product also relies on the dcc32 but after the dust settled and the (hidden) limitations were told, I was also very unhappy. That's one thing.

But the other thing is the obvious lack of communication skills of Emarcadero. If they don't even give their (valuable) component vendors a possibility to test drive their products on the stripped down Delphi, I must ask myself what the hell are they thinking about. They are not alone. Delphi's success depends a lot on the third party tools - aka - their "partners".

So the "junior partners" realized (again?) their role in that relationship - that's sad... But I can only hope that EMB learns from that bad press reactions because I love Delphi and want it to survive which means that I also need good third party components and the ones from DevEx are one of them.

Compiling libraries on install IMHO is the only *correct* way to install them, because they are compiled with the actual compiler and required dependencies (that can have been patched by an update, for example...) and no those on the developer's machine (or his build system).

Also projects like Indy, Jedi and so on can only release the code and don't get mad having to release precompiled libraries as well, and especially JCL/JVCL made a very good work in building their installers.

Frankly I can't see how including the command line compiler could change Starter feature set. Intersimone posts does not explain why it should be able to install easily an expensive library as long as it comes with precompiled files, and not an open source one that comes with sources only (beginners may have an hard time to install some without the installer).

They should explain exactly what the target is: beginners? Why make adding even some free libraries very complex? Experienced Delphi hobbyists? Why then the five network licenses? Startups? Why then hinder installing some commercial libraries? ExpressBars for example costs $199 and allows for better UIs than DelphI VCL alone. It's not so expensive to justify Intersimone post "if you can spend more money you should buy a Pro". Even a hobbyists could be more interested to spend $350 to write a better looking application than spending $1000 and get only the basic control and other stuff he may not interested in.

And IMHO it should be a concern for Emb to keep its best 3rd party vendor happy, because they are those who kept Delphi afloat in these years of slow development and lots of mistakes.

"And IMHO it should be a concern for Emb to keep its best 3rd party vendor happy"

i absolutely agree. there is a very real chance that the only reason some developers -  obviously Win32 desktop client developers - stick with Delphi/C++Builder is because of the components available from vendors like DevEx. It seems to me that someone that gets hooked on the ExpressQuantumGrid Suite for example is far more likely to licence RAD Studio Professional/Enterprise/Architect than someone who is content with TDBGrid.

As always, it remains difficult to do business with those responsible for Delphi. Whether they work for Borland, Codegear or Embarcadero. The same people just move companies. :(

Delphi Pascal has dropped from being 8% most used language to 1.5%

One of the major reasons for even considering Delphi at all, is because of the Dev Express components, which sadly, is only doing the minimum to maintain the VCL version.

If they don't want to include the command line compiler for building applications, why can't they limit it in the starter edition so that it can only compile packages and not executables?  That way install processes installing component libraries would work but it can't really be used for anything else.

Is this issue resolved by now? I have Delphi XE Starter and am trying to install DevExpress.

Thanks,

Ben