WinForms Grids - Drag Indicators - Need Your Feedback

Thinking Out Loud
29 March 2010

As you know, our standard drag indicators for DevExpress WinForms grids, pivot tables, and trees look like the following:

 

WinForms Grid Drag Indicator

We've implemented custom images for these indicators as follows:

WinForms Grid Drag Indicator

WinForms Grid Drag Indicator

Now onto to the question for those of you using our WinForms controls. Should we keep the standard drag icon as the default image or should we use the new images (based on the skin being used) as the default?

 

50 comment(s)
Michael Proctor [DX-Squad]
Michael Proctor [DX-Squad]

Although the concept sounds good I think that it loses its functionality as people wouldn't immediately see "arrows".

I had to look at the images again to work out what was what.

Personally I would prefer DX to keep the arrows as standard, and if you want maybe have a OptionsView.AllowSkinDragIndicator or something.

Thanks for asking for feedback, it is great to see.

29 March, 2010
Nate Woolls - DevExpress MVP
Nate Woolls - DevExpress MVP

I'd personally vote to enable the skinned indicators by default. I think that's in line with other skinned elements that have been added (default to the skinned appearance with the ability to override) plus keeps it simple when it comes to benefitting from the skinning - by default you don't have to do anything extra!

29 March, 2010
Mark Chimes
Mark Chimes

It is the small changes like these that help keep DevExpress users like me ahead of my competitors.

Please keep the standard drag icons as the default. The standard icons are very usable for business apps, and while the new icons provide a nice choice, the chance of them "fitting" any particular business app is slim.

29 March, 2010
Ruben Ruvalcaba Camba
Ruben Ruvalcaba Camba

I liked the skinned indicator, its more consistent with all the themed controls.

great work!

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
Bradley

I like the new indicators, though some of the might be a little unclear, it's hard to tell from the screen shots.  I'd have to see them in action to really judge.

30 March, 2010
Christopher Todd
Christopher Todd

For me it doesn't matter. I tend to use only the more conservative skins. I suppose using the images that go with the theme makes since. A lot of the themes are really elaborate and over the top, so using the standard drag icon may seem a little out of place.

30 March, 2010
Saif Khan
Saif Khan

I think you should keep the standard drag icon.

30 March, 2010
Mike Hunsberger
Mike Hunsberger

Make those the defaults for sure if the skin is showing everything else anyway... cool

30 March, 2010
Steve Sharkey
Steve Sharkey

It makes sense (to me) to use skinned ones as default with the ability to override if possible though I guess more conservative skins are the more popular ones - however I'd have prefered the time was spent imporving the skinning in otherways (useability, ease of tweaking skins etc).

30 March, 2010
Carl Clark
Carl Clark

Default to standard drag icons.

30 March, 2010
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30 March, 2010
Rolf Heinen
Rolf Heinen

Keep the standard drag icon as the default image, please.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
Andreas

Keep the standard drag-icons as default, but add a static property:

DevExpress.LookAndFeel.UserLookAndFeel.[Default].UseSkinDragIcons = True/False

30 March, 2010
Robert O'Brien
Robert O'Brien

As long as the skinned ones are quite conservative (ie. very similar to the existing image) I say use skinned ones by default. Otherwise play it safe and use the existing one by default.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
ccchai

Keep the standard indicator as the default

30 March, 2010
Sigurd Decroos
Sigurd Decroos

Make skinned the default ones and perhaps an option to use the standard ones. It would be nice to have a general option for all grids used in a project next to an individual property per grid.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
Leonidas Zoumis

The user who prefers fancy skins would prefer fancy skinned indicators too. So I vote for custom indicators for fancy skins only. Keep the standard indicators for skins like Office 2007, Windows 7 etc.

30 March, 2010
Eric Harmon_1
Eric Harmon_1

I think you should use the skinned indicators by default.  If the app is skinned, it should be completely skinned.  The fact that it sounds like it could be turned off will allow those who don't want to skin every element to customize their app.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
johnny

personally i belive graphic arrows are confusing,

just skin the arrow color and keep the arrows

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
Andres Villalta

By default I prefer the standard icons. Maybe add an option to enable or disable the skin icons.

30 March, 2010
Crono
Crono

Oh my god, please stick with arrows!

30 March, 2010
Michael Schmidlkofer
Michael Schmidlkofer

It would be an even more visually intuitive effect to have dragging table columns appear the way it does almost universally in Mac OS X, where the entire column becomes translucent and is visually dragged around.

Is that even practical in the GDI+ based WinForms?

30 March, 2010
Neal
Neal

The arrows are a much better indicator to the end user for relocating a column.  It is used in various other interfaces.  What you use now is not apparent to the eye as to what's happening, trying to find a rectangle within a rectangle is not a good user-experience.  It also leads the user to believe it's going to resize the current column to half the width as if the column being dragged in is taking up its space.  It's just not good, hence MY suggestion for the arrows long long ago, we need the arrows as the default.  Why anyone would want it the way it is now baffles me.  Think of the user, how they will get FEEDBACK on what is actually going on.  Now take this to the asp.net/WPF/aG side and I think arrows should be the standard and default across all components.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
Kevin Farrow

As a skin represents an overall "look and feel" I would be inclined to use the new images as default.

I presume we will be able to change back to the default images (as well as all the other properties we may not like) so it isn't really a problem.

Also if you use the standard default images, then the new images are not really part of the overall skin!

30 March, 2010
Brendon Muck [DevExpress MVP]
Brendon Muck [DevExpress MVP]

Standard  by default. The skinned ones are a little silly and a bit unintuitive.

30 March, 2010
Matthew Ross
Matthew Ross

It depends on what you intend to have there. I would be frustrated if I updated and found all my apps with a theme we previously had settled on, suddenly had bird or skull icons instead of something professional. On the other hand, if it were merely that the arrow icons matched the color scheme and shading of the rest of the theme, then skinned would be preferable.

30 March, 2010
Anonymous
juergen

Looks nice. Why not make a small property "Use default indicators" in the Skin properties. So everybody can use it as he likes?

30 March, 2010
Sameer Tanna
Sameer Tanna

Default to standard icon

30 March, 2010
Andrew Watts
Andrew Watts

Standard icons.

30 March, 2010
Neal
Neal

I guess we need a third option.  I don't like the default ones but I'm not a big fan of the skinned ones either after looking at the Halloween theme.  I'd like instead just plain RED ARROWS.  Can this be a third option?  

30 March, 2010
Geoff Davis
Geoff Davis

standard

30 March, 2010
Robert Fuchs
Robert Fuchs

Keep the standard.

30 March, 2010
R Cox
R Cox

Standard icons... the objects are not intuitive in skin mode...

30 March, 2010
Junior Thurler
Junior Thurler

Why not leave both ? The user/developer chooses what one they want to use in proprierties grid.

30 March, 2010
Marco Mazza
Marco Mazza

Default to Standard icons

30 March, 2010
R Cox
R Cox

Standard icons... the skinned option doesn't seem too intuitive, but I guess I could go for the end user option.

30 March, 2010
Matthew MacSuga
Matthew MacSuga

Option, option, option, option, option, option, option. :)  

Please, under no circumstances make "fancy" the default.  Keep things simple.. and for those that are interested, of course, give them the option.  I liked the static property idea.  Opt in, not opt out.

I would also suggest that if you are unable to make it an option, that you drop it altogether.

Thanks!

- Matthew

30 March, 2010
Drew Stainton
Drew Stainton

Please, oh please, leave the standard ones as default.

30 March, 2010
Accountix
Accountix

Keep the standard icons.

30 March, 2010
Mathew Alex
Mathew Alex

For all those voted for Standard icons , I agree as far as the user selected near to standard skin like Office , Windows , ... etc.

But If the user selected a fancy skin like valentine and already all scroll-bars have heart so it's natural to heart indecator.

31 March, 2010
Garry Lowther
Garry Lowther

Keep the skinned indicator by default, but make it a property to choose "Skinned" or "Standard".

31 March, 2010
Brian O'Sullivan
Brian O'Sullivan

Standard icon as default but perhaps an option to turn on/off skin icons

31 March, 2010
Crono
Crono

If you're considering some kind of "cursor mode" property, you might want to consider "checkbox mode", "radio button mode" and "drop down icon mode" as well, because they're the very reasons why my users (and also MANY other users, I guess) don't like skins like halloween or spring.

On first sight it's appealing, but when you actually use the app on a daily basis, it quickly becomes annoying and confusing like hell. Users don't just stare at an application, they actually use it, and expect it to be efficient and intuitive.

... coffins as checkboxes and moon phases as radio buttons are all but intuitive.

Some skins you guys did, like caramel, uses standard objects with color schemes. That is a much, much better way to go. You should do that for ALL of your skins.

31 March, 2010
Dmitry Dobrovolsky
Dmitry Dobrovolsky

Keep the standard drag icons as the default.

31 March, 2010
R Cox
R Cox

Standard icons.

31 March, 2010
Martin Mizzell
Martin Mizzell

Definitely keep the standard icons.

31 March, 2010
Anonymous
Martin Smith

Keep the standard icons.  Certain elements in the UI lose their ergonomic intuitiveness if you change them.

31 March, 2010
Julien Ferraro
Julien Ferraro

The skins are made to change the look and feel of the application.

If the user chooses the Pumkin skin, he already gets skulls everywhere. He expects the whole scheme to be changed.

If he doesn't want skulls, he just chosse a more professional skin. I'm sure that the indicator of the Money Twins skin are not bird nor skulls.

The indicators should match the spirit of the skin ... so my vote goes to the skinned indocators

31 March, 2010
CESAR F. QüEB
CESAR F. QüEB

Indicators should match with elements of the skin.. but the skinned indicators must be clears and suitable to the theme...ie: using the Pumkin skin.. not skulls...maybe tridents... :)

1 April, 2010
Ralph Jansen
Ralph Jansen

Please standard

1 April, 2010

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